-- Fluid Router ID TR-1147-MX
-- [Alert: Router at 5% entanglement.
-- [Estimated time to router failure: 3 hours]
-- Log: Private Conversation
-- Channel ID: -44733975
-- Participants: Yakiya Verin Hakatain, Pieter Tuulinen
-- Transcript begins [YC115.05.11 23:29:45EST]
Verin Hakatain > Don't you feel like antagonising the Matari might be a little counter-productive?
Pieter Tuulinen > I'm not antagonising them, Verin. I'm providing intel.
Verin Hakatain > We've all got our duty to do, but I don't see what Helgatild has to do with the defence of the State
Pieter Tuulinen > I hope you don't think I make deployment decisions for Pyre Falcon, Verin.
Verin Hakatain > I would have hoped you at least had a say.
Pieter Tuulinen > No. Executive authority is limited to the Command Cadre and our shareholders. I have made my own feelings on the deployment plain - but whilst Command listened it has been made plain that the deployment will not change.
Verin Hakatain > Well, I won't argue with following orders. Winds know, I've done plenty of that myself.
Pieter Tuulinen > Believe me, I've raised my concerns - but it comes down to, will I support my Kirjuun or will I aid the tribes of Matari.
Verin Hakatain > the two are not - usually - incompatible. And in this case, the only reason they are is because your Kirjuun took action to make it so
Pieter Tuulinen > I believe command sees this solely as a punitive anti-materiel campaign aimed at the TLF for their role in the debacle in Black Rise... If I might make a suggestion, I believe that Desiderya is online at present. If you have questions regarding the deployment, you've more chance of getting a fair hearing from her than Veikitamo. I could bring her here, if you'd like?
Verin Hakatain > Nothing ventured nothing gained
Pieter Tuulinen > I believe your standing within the State warrants answers.
-- Channel: UserAdd Desiderya, [YC115.05.11 23:36:03EST]
Verin Hakatain > Desiderya.
Pieter Tuulinen > Commander, Hakatain-haan has questions regarding our current deployment.
Desiderya > Hakatain-haan.
Verin Hakatain > Saisieni... This Helgatild action. I'm not clear on what exactly it accomplishes in the State's defence.
Desiderya > Preying on targets. It's a war, after all. Or are you referring to something more than single takedowns?"
Verin Hakatain > well, my point is that I'm not sure how helping the Amarr take Helgatild aids the strategic defence of the State. In my experience, getting into a cycle of vengeance and counter-attacks with the Matari doesn't end well. It certainly undermines the diplomatic effort.
Desiderya > You mean Heth's diplomatic effort.
Verin Hakatain > I mean mine, actually
Desiderya > And how so?
Verin Hakatain > You've not heard of the Interlink project? I'm attempting to gather support for a Caldari-Matari capsuleer R&D venture in the form of an alliance of corporations. The idea being to promote more positive relations between the Tribes and the State and maybe ultimately get a cease-fire signed, disentangle us from the mess in the south and leave us to just worry about the Federation. That's going to be a rather harder idea to sell if we've got a prominent STPRO corp helping the Amarr take Matari systems.
Desiderya > Incorrect. We're not pushing territory.
Verin Hakatain > So, what did happen in Helgatild?
Desiderya > The neighbouring system of Brin turned out to be a good frontline resupply base. It's simple, really.
Verin Hakatain > So we've got a prominent STPRO corporation helping to clear out a frontline resupply base. The Minmatar are likely to view that as an.... academic distinction
Desiderya > We cross the border from The Forge for combat patrols with search and destroy or disruption as the goals. Helgatild saw some activity, so naturally we visited it more often, alongside the aforementioned strategic benefit Brin supplies.
Verin Hakatain > May I ask why you're crossing the border at all?
Desiderya > Because waiting gets so tiresome.
Verin Hakatain > ...I understand that Pyre can't base their policies and flight plans on my pet project, nor on my philosophy, but surely there's plenty of action in Black Rise and Placid?
Desiderya > Not in the same manner as here. Unless you want to deploy into deep Placid. And then there's a lot of serene quietness and the comforting feeling of playing directly into Heth's coffers, provided you can get systems back. I need an environment for our pilots to grow in. After Enaluri fell - and I might add that the TLF has had a massive impact on that venture, much bigger than Soter's self aggrandization - we found ourselves facing new challenges. Operation Cascade Flame is not about punishing the Republic, assisting the Amarr or personal vendettas. It is entirely focused around growing the company. Deploying into an unknown - to our pilots - area, establishing a base of operations and moving out into hostile territories hunting for targets. The targets are necessary, how else can you get skilled pilots? Besides rumour was that the Minmatar knew how to fight.
Verin Hakatain > And to some degree it's a poke in the Executor's eye?
Pieter Tuulinen > If ever an eye needed poking...
Desiderya > I don't want to enable that man any further at this point.
Verin Hakatain > I can sympathize on all points, I suppose. But there's a growing swell of anti-Gallente sentiment in the Tribes that I'm eager to leverage. I think the State could really benefit. It's... awkward, to have an extra weight on the scales at this delicate moment.
Desiderya > I can understand. But at the same time I'm not going to pack up shop over inconveniencing nascent plans for your project, nor especially over Minmatar gnawing my diplomat's ears off over that perceived slight. If they'd have put that energy into fighting the Amarrians they wouldn't have to evacuate.
Verin Hakatain > Nor would I ask you to. I just felt you should be made aware of the project.
Desiderya > There's nothing wrong with it. This deployment is centered around very mercenary type goals. You've got to understand that the company comes first, and I think you do. I'm sorry if this makes State-Republic relations more difficult, but so did the sacking of Enaluri.
Verin Hakatain > Mmm. But as I said, entering into a cycle of vengeance and counter-attacks with the Minmatar rarely ends well. They have a habit of taking things personally. Just look at Ava Starfire.
Pieter Tuulinen > I've been known to be grumpy in the morning too, Verin. I still have to be an adult. You know my feelings regarding Ava. I admire her greatly. But for her to respond to limited anti-shipping raids as if we were lifting slaves off planets by the freighter hold and selling them... That's unreasonable.
Desiderya > Yes, they have that habit. This makes us having to appease them? Certainly not.
Verin Hakatain > Appease? No. But it's hardly a good idea to throw rocks at a hornet's nest. Unless you have to, of course.
Pieter Tuulinen > I wouldn't mind - but mostly we've been prosecuting pirates, not TLF fleets."
Verin Hakatain > Did you tell her that?
Desiderya > Of course it is unreasonable
Verin Hakatain > They have a different definition of "reasonable". Not that I'm suggesting we should operate by their definition, but it's worth remembering.
Pieter Tuulinen > Verin, I've told her that we're not pushing territory. I've told her that we're not bashing IHUBs. I've told her that we aren't coordinating with Amarrian Militia. I've told her that we hand over Matari POWs to Matari authorities and NEVER to Amarrian authorities.
Desiderya > They see what they want to see and, when in doubt, there's always the ultimate argument of slavery. I'm under the impression that the vast majority of exchanges between the empires are formalized under the CEMWPA mandate, which, as I might add, has been signed by both parties. Apparently it was deemed acceptible.
Verin Hakatain > Sure. none of those are the issue for her at all. The issue is that you're there at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > A push back was always going to happen, Verin. The Amarrian militia has been more supine than a hangar full of whores. We are a VERY minor force in the grandscheme of that push back.
Verin Hakatain > I know that, and I understand it
Desiderya > Frankly, do I look like someone who gives a fuck about Starfire's hurt feelings?
Pieter Tuulinen > Any consideration for Ava's feelings is personal to myself and not corporate, Verin.
Verin Hakatain > She's an illustrative example. As a commander, your job is to be aware of as many relevant facts as possible. One such relevant fact is that the Minmatar have a seven hundred year old persecution complex, and not unjustifiably.
Desiderya > Don't try to be that apologetic for them. They're being unreasonable, and while it's heartwarming to get all that credit for work we haven't even done, it's above all over the top.
Verin Hakatain > Ava is... as much as I like her, she's a useful barometer for the general thrust of Matari opinion on this sort of issue. You can extrapolate her reaction up to the general reaction, is my point.
Desiderya > Oh, she sure is. You just have to shoot her Wolf down once and we've got tribals storming our office.
Verin Hakatain > I mean that it's entirely possible that the TLF will view the Amarrian involvement as expected, and the Caldari involvement as a much bigger deal than it really is.
Pieter Tuulinen > The recent TLF involvement in the Black Rise theater of operations is a complicating factor, Verin. It makes it look as if the TLF are quite happy when the boot is being applied by them, but squealing now they're feeling it on their own backside.
Verin Hakatain > Complicating, yes. Responding in kind complicates it further still. I agree, by Caldari standards they're often very unreasonable indeed, which is why I'm so concerned about this.
Desiderya > You can argue from a strategical position that weakening the Minmatar control in their warzone gives breathing space for the forces at home.
Verin Hakatain > I'd argue that weakening their control in their home warzone gives them less incentive to stay there and more incentive to raid.
Desiderya > And you'd be wrong. Knocking down system control levels makes it more important - and worthwhile - to defend owned systems. With the Amarrians pushing systems back they also gained more territory to attack at their doorsteps. No need to venture into Black Rise for that.
Verin Hakatain > As you say. In any case, I wouldn't presume to ask you to change your policies for the sake of my pet project. It was never going to be an easy venture in the first place, I can handle a bit more difficulty. I was just after a more complete understanding of what was going on. I now have it, and I'm grateful
Desiderya > You should tell me more about that project of yours. And also, we're not going to grow roots here. But for the time being it's unlikely to change. After all, logistics are in place and it was costly just to move everything. Not going to toss that down the drain over hurt tribal feelings.
Pieter Tuulinen > There was talk of extending an offer to Gradient for us to relocate if they covered our costs, but I shot that down as being likely to cause further bad feeling, Verin. Was that accurate?
Verin Hakatain > Oh, absolutely accurate. They'd be very insulted. And I'm still in the middle of writing up the alliance charter: this is as far as I've got in the rough draft. [ATTACHMENT 13Si8M]
Desiderya > You can't move without insulting them, apparently. Ah, the charter. Let me see.
Pieter Tuulinen > I must admit that I don't know Matari culture very well. Working as a diplomat in this area is very challenging.
Verin Hakatain > There's a reason I'm ReAw's chief diplomatic officer
Pieter Tuulinen > There's a reason why I defer to your greater experience, generally. Sadly, I have to make do with the tools I have come by honestly.
Desiderya > You're not doing a bad job... Either of you. So, trade, R&D. I assume we're sitting right in your targeted regions for growing such a project, then.
Verin Hakatain > you wouldn't be inaccurate in that assumption. The idea is to demonstrate that serious trading, R&D and manufacturing initiatives between our nations can be as if not more profitable than the ones we currently have with the Khanid and the Empire. Sebiestor starship engineers especially represent a group I'm very interested in letting loose in a lab full of Caldari starship tech.
Desiderya > Definitely, there's potential.
Verin Hakatain > I don't need to tell you that cross-factional starship technologies such as those developed by the Angels and Guristas are highly valuable. If we can generate similar success with Caldari/Minmatar technology? ...Well. I'm pretty sure the megas have limped along on less revenue from time to time
Desiderya > Kaalakiota owns a lot of stations in this area, you're likely not the first to think that the Republic would be a worthwhile investment. It sounds better than selling TCMCs with a smile, no?
Verin Hakatain > It does. The tricky part is riding the impartial line between two nations that are, technically, enemies. Accusations of favouritism and espionage will be a daily occurance, I'm sure.
Desiderya > I am pretty sure that it will be a tough ride.
Verin Hakatain > So am I. Still, 'the mountains most worth climbing' and all that.
Desiderya > We all do what we can to move our vision forward, no? Well, you have my best wishes for your project. Maybe the recent squabbles between the Republic and the Federation will make them more likely to look into the direction of the State in regards of trading partners.
Verin Hakatain > My thanks. Anyway, I'll not take up any more of your schedule. Thanks, commander.
Desiderya > I hope I was able to alleviate some of your concerns.
Verin Hakatain > Not exactly, but you did alleviate my ignorance.
Desiderya > Honest answer, I like that.
Verin Hakatain > Anvatkaa
-- Transcript ends, [YC115.05.12 00:47:17EST]